Katadyn Water Purifiers

I have a Sweetwater Guardian, and I like it.  It’s probably easier to pump than any other filter because of the lever it uses.  I do know (from using at REI) that it pumps easier than an MSR filter with a similar lever.  However, if I were buying a filter for the first time, I would consider an MSR Miniworks or Waterworks or a Katadyn Pocket Filter or Minifilter.  The MSR filters attach directly to a water bottle (or my MSR Dromedary water bag), so there’s no output hose to get contaminated.  The Katadyn filters seem to get the most use out of their replaceable filter elements, if their claims as to filter life are accurate.  All of those filters have the requisite pore size (.2 microns, I believe) to filter out cysts, protozoa, and most bacteria. In any case, check out the monthly panel here about water filters and contaminants, or go to rei.com and find their chart that compares the abilities of various makes and models of filters, to make sure the one you buy removes the things from the water that you want it to.  And remember this is only one opinion (mine) among many.  You may place greater emphasis on other factors in choosing a water filter. A trick to extend the life of any water filter, which I probably read in this newsgroup, is to cover the “prefilter” at the end of the intake hose that goes into the water source with a coffee filter, to strain out the larger contaminants and keep them from clogging the filter element. 

 

Water Purifier – A Must Have Home Appliance

We have a Pur water purifier which needs a replacement filter every so often. When we recently went to our local camping store, where the purifier was bought, to buy a new filter, we were told they are no longer allowed to sell these. There are plenty of stocks we were told, but they are not allowed to sell them, or the purifiers. However they cannot or will not say why, or whether this is a permanent or temporary state of affairs. They also refused to tell us how or where to contact the makers of the product!  They say a similar ban applies to the Sweetwater brand purifier. Does anyone know anything about why the purifier & filter are banned, &/or where to contact the manufacturer, or any other relevant information? First, understand that there is a difference between a FILTER and a PURIFIER. The former filters out bacteria and protozoa but not viruses. The latter filters out bacteria and protozoa and kills the viruses chemically. (OK, the latter may also kill any remnant bacteria and protozoa as well.)

I asked Pur what was going on (by email). Summarised, the answer was as follows: There is nothing the matter with the basic (Hiker) filter, and it has NOT been withdrawn. The carbon post-filter used sometimes with the iodine (Voyager) insert was found to be TOO effective. It took all the iodine out of the water before it had killed the bugs and wogs. OK, this seems a very reasonable explanation. If correct, it would seem that someone in Australia, probably the distributor, has got the wrong message and is taking action by himself. My understanding from Pur is that the basic non-iodised filter is still for sale, and the iodine insert may also be still for sale, but the carbon post-filter has been withdrawn while they sort out the quality control on the carbon material. Frankly, I would never use a carbon post-filter with an iodine insert for this very reason. The iodine needs to act for 5-30 minutes (depending on temperature) to get the required kill efficiency. The amount left in the water is extremely small anyhow. Yes, you can SMELL it, but I defy you to taste it.

 

Water Filtering System

I’m off to Nepal to do some trekking soon and considering taking a water purifier with me mainly to ensure a safe supply of drinking water but also to do my bit at reducing the plastic bottle pollution epidemic. Can anyone recommend a good purifier that’s both compact and capable of producing enough clean water for two people for the duration of the Annapurna Circuit trek I’m reckoning on about a liter each a day for twenty one days. All I can say is, make sure you have some iodine tablets (and something to kill the taste) because you never know when the darn machine’s going to break.

I had a Pur Scout, which came highly recommended by the camping shop. By my third day in Africa it melted (and it was sitting in the same bag as my cheap camera, which was fine). It wasn’t unusable but it took three people to hold it together and pump at the same time. Yes, I would say that some kind of water purification equipment is quite esential.  As many other people have said, your estimate of one liter per person per day indicates that you don’t have much experience with backpacking.  If nothing else, buying 4 liters of bottled water per day per person adds up to a lot of money.  It is also a lot of weight to carry.

When I travel in India, I use Polar Pure, a system based on iodine crystals (Kahn-Vischer method) with essentially unlimited capacity.  Problems are that the bottle has to be protected against freezing, and any kind of chemical disinfection works poorly at low temperatures.  Neither is a problem in lowland India, but 18,000 feet is a whole ‘nother question. I recommend asking advice or reading the FAQ in rec.backcountry. Generally, filters avoid problems with iodine flavor, potential toxicity, and temperature, but don’t filter out viruses, your most serious enemies. Also expensive, slow, sometimes heavy, and prone to breakdown.  Iodine kills viruses very well, but is less effective against parasite cysts. Probably a combination of coarse filter and low-concentration iodine is best.

Water Purifier

We have a Pur water purifier which needs a replacement filter every so often. When we recently went to our local camping store, where the purifier was bought, to buy a new filter, we were told they are no longer allowed to sell these. There are plenty of stocks we were told, but they are not allowed to sell them, or the purifiers. However they cannot or will not say why, or whether this is a permanent or temporary state of affairs. They also refused to tell us how or where to contact the makers of the product!  They say a similar ban applies to the Sweetwater brand purifier. Does anyone know anything about why the purifier & filter are banned, &/or where to contact the manufacturer, or any other relevant information?

I asked after Pur purifiers in REI (US store) a few months back and they said they had a product recall on the filters (IIRC). Same story re not being allowed to sell them, but if you threatened to take the store to the OFT I am sure you can convince them to tell you how to contact Pur [assuming you bought the purifier there, say]. If you have any original packaging that should their contact details. Failing that, try

Water Purifier Question.

I have a Pur Scout water purifier.
Does anyone here know if it could purify
urine in an emergency situation?
I was going to contact the company
but I could get a more objective opinion here.

You could certainly put urine through your Pur Scout, but what you’d get would not be water–you’d get purified urine. The Scout is intended to remove particulate contaminants and microbes from WATER, not urine. Urine is mostly water–it is other chemical compounds in the water that make it urine. And those chemicals are not filtered out by any purifier. The only way to get water from urine would be via distillation, and that might still be pretty icky.

Purifiers like the Scout are intended for use in rivers and streams for the removal of bacteria, viruses and particles. Not for filtering pee. Purify it how?  Remove the salts in solution or ??  I don’t believe there’s such a beast as a filter that will remove dissolved material, and if there are solids in your urine, you have other medical concerns that need attention.  In the absence of an infection, your urine should be sterile (at least to your own body) and drinkable at a pinch.  You might be better off to pee in your solar still and collect the distilled urine that way.

Water Purifier Filter

We are ready to winterize our unit (2001 27F Terry) and cannot figure out how to disconnect/remove the water purifier filter.  The purifier is a separate spigot next to the kitchen faucet.  The owner’s manual doesn’t list any details and the “pamphlet” from the mfg.. lacks any kind of replacement directions.  I know the filter has to come off somehow.  They are supposed to be replaceable.  Does anyone have a built in water purifier and know how to remove this filter? There are several types.  I believe that the “popular” type is a cartridge filter that is a bit over an inch in diameter and about 10 inches long.  You need to remove it and replace it with a bypass hose.  It has either quick connect or screw type fittings.  The filter manufacturer makes a hose that is exactly the same length as the filter.  If you did not get one with your RV, with a few readily available parts from the plumbing department of your favorite building supply store it’s a simple job to make a bypass up.

What ever you do, don’t fill the filter with antifreeze; store it in a warm place since it will have water in it; and, don’t forget to replace it every year.  I’ve read that they are a wonderful breeding ground for strange stuff as they age. when I picked up my 2000  terry this spring, they had just ran antifreeze through my filter. (it sat on the dealers lot over the winter. I had to replace the filter already one time this season because it started to stink, so I replaced it with a full size “ice maker” filter.  All I had to do was shorten the plastic hose under the counter so the new filter would fit.  (I think I also had to use the inlet and outlet fittings off the original filter). My plan is to just run antifreeze through the filter, then replace the filter  in the spring. the bigger filters are less then $10.00 if you shop around for them, and its probably time for a new one anyway.

 

UV Light/ Water Purifier

We just bought a house that has well water.  The sellers were all gung-ho about a system the house has where the water runs through a clear tube past a  UV light (about the lenght of a regular fluorescent light).  It is supposed to kill the bacteria.  I am a Med Tech who has been working in Micro for 15 years and  I am not impressed.  Am I missing something here? I know UV light will kill bacteria and we use these lights in our hoods to decontaminate.  However, I thought that this killing took a little time. These bacteria are going to just wash right past this light in a flash.  Are they really zapped that fast?   I was wondering what fellow Microbiologists think of this??  I don’t  think it is worth replacing the $80 bulb once a year.  The state water test certificate came back with no coliforms.

There is a market, in fact a fairly large commercial market, for these things and some studies I have seen show appreciable drops in viable counts as a result of the exposure.  However, like you, I still have major reservations.  UV does not pass through regular glass so, unless the clear tube in your system is fused quartz, it is not likely that much UV exposure of the water is occurring. Still, large companies *do* purchase these things for treatment of their water supplies.  Someone must know something that I don’t!

Similar devices are available for industrial HVAC systems where the flow rates must mean that contaminated air spends but a brief time exposed to the UV. Nevertheless, the company blurbs contain impressive data on microbial killing purportedly carried out by independent labs.  In my limited experience some bugs are more susceptible to killing by UV than others.  We used to routinely kill high concentrations of Listeria (a billion/ml) by exposing them to UV for 10-15 seconds, whereas Salmonella typhimurium used to take several minutes to kill.  Of course if your drinking water or air were that contaminated then not even gamma radiation would help much.

Ultraviolet Water Purification

I am no expert on the ultraviolet method of water purification, but have never heard about the cancer causing aspects of it. I tend to ignore a lot There are none, as it’s the UV that causes (skin) cancer. If the unit is competantly installed (a blueish glow visible anywhere is bad news) there should not be any risk. There is certainly no risk when it comes out of the taps. The way to rate UV systems is how long the water is exposed to the UV, and how intense it is. This is measured in units like s * mw/cm^2. Exposing stuff to UV for ten times as long is as good as ten times the power for a tenth of the time. Various stuff requires different amounts of UV to kill it. The hardest stuff to kill is generally spores. The UV generated by your water purification unit is what’s called short wavelength or germicidal UV and it’s very fast and effective at killing viruses, bacteria and other nasties. If the unit is sized for your water system and operating properly, it will work and the manufacturer’s literature or web site should tell you if you have the right unit for your application. To be absolutely sure, sample the incoming and output water and have it tested. Short wavelength UV can damage skin and eyes so you should not expose yourself to UV radiation from the lamp.

An automatic shut-off switch is usually part of the unit so the UV lamp will not operate if the unit is open. The purification device should also have safety glass in the inspection port so the UV is kept inside the unit. Usually, some visible blue light can be seen through the glass, but the harmful UV is filtered out. Short wavelength UV is associated with skin cancer. If you expose your skin to the UV from sunshine or certain electric light sources over time and particularly if you have had severe sunburns when you were young, your chances of skin cancer go up. But your UV water purification unit does not expose you to UV and nothing is done to the water as it goes through the unit that would make the water cause cancer. There are none, as it’s the UV that causes (skin) cancer. If the unit is competantly installed (a blueish glow visible anywhere is bad news) there should not be any risk. There is certainly no risk when it comes out of the taps. The way to rate UV systems is how long the water is exposed to the UV, and how intense it is. This is measured in units like s * mw/cm^2. Exposing stuff to UV for ten times as long is as good as ten times the power for a tenth of the time. Various stuff requires different amounts of UV to kill it. The hardest stuff to kill is generally spores.

UV is one of the best means to treat for bacteria but it depends on a number of things as to how well UV works in a given application. Things like if the water needs pretreatment and you have it and maintain the equipment to allow the light to work as it should. Also, you have to replace the bulb in the time frame for the make of light you have. That’s usually 9000 hours (annually due to the intensity falling off due to changes in the quartz the lamp is made of etc.) for all lights that do not have an intensity meter or metering circuitry; which is finally becoming popular with more and more dealers. I’ve been selling them since 1994/19955. And it depends on the class of the light you have; A or B with A being the only type I’ll sell. The A lamp produces much more intense UV-C than the class B lights. Like 40K to 16K microwatts/centimeter squared when they are new, or the newest terminalogy, microjoules/cm2. And then there’s the proper flow control to maintain the light’s rated flow. So what light and any pretreatment do you have or need based on the raw water quality you have? No, the teacher isn’t explaining things correctly or is mistaken. UV for water is in the germicidal range of the UV spectrum; exactly it’s 254.7 nanometers which is shortwave UV-C. If the light shines on you or in your eyes that’s dangerous but then the light would be in a bad way and won’t be treating your water anyway. If you have a viewport, the light emitted from it does not contain the invisible UV-C due to it being ‘filtered’ out by the material the veiwport is made of; which is usually thick plexiglass.

Water Purifier Info…

A water purifier is very different from a water filter. Figure out what you need. A purifier may be a desalinizer, such as a reverse osmosis membrane that removes salt from sea water. these will be more expensize to buy and keep up (replace membrane cartridges).

A filter is meant to remove particulate matter from water. Look at the pore size rating. To remove pathogens such as Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocytes, get a filter with an absolute pore size rating of 2 microns or below. To take care of bacteria, you need a tighter rating, on the order of less than 1 micron. Most commercially available filters will not remove viruses (you need a filter with an absolute pore size of less than 0.01 micron). Iodine will not kill giardia or cryptosporidium but can kill bacteria and viruses. Using granular activated carbon will remove unpleasant tastes and odors as well as organic matter (pesticides as well as naturally occurring organic matter) and will remove iodine, heavy metals (lead, arsenic, etc).

I have a Pur hand held filter with an add-on carbon cartridge. The Pur filter has a rating of <1 micron and also an iodated resin to kill viruses. The carbon then removes the unpleasant iodine taste. I have read up on the Pur filter and have been impressed with their testing. There are other very good filters out there — Sweet Water, Katadyn, etc.

There’s a difference between water filters and water purifiers. Filters remove taste, odor, bacteria, cysts, protozoans and organic chemicals. Purifiers also remove (kill) viruses. Natually, purifiers are more expensive. If you’re going to be travelling in the US or Canada, a filter is sufficient. PUR, Katadyn, MSR and others make suitable filters and purifiers. Check out backpacking suppliers and magazines for information. Backpacker Magazine’s Gear Guide would be a good place to start.

Tap Water purifier!

Agreed with all the statements in your post, so I have nothing to come back with, Your definately right about pure water being a magnet for impurities! Even 2 megohm water sucks ammonia right out of the air and it becomes useless even for simple lab tests. I just had notorious luck with 4 out of 4 very expensive powered RO systems, the membranes continually clogged, no matter what steps I went through to protect them and keep them clean. As far as DI, it is much easier to recharge a DI setup every 3 months, than to clean the RO every week and still have to replace the membranes.  Provided the DI is set up in a manner that makes recharging simple and efficient.

My DI columns are quite large, compared to the single AP TWP units. But not massive, I use the larger spaghetti canisters, a set of 5 of them, and that gets me approximately 3 months of water before recharging is required, and even that part is set up to be the least amount of trouble to do, basically the turn of 4 valves is all it takes. DI can last for hundreds of gallons when preceded with RO. I like DI alone, because for me, it’s simple, cheap and easy!

The only way it can be expensive is if the user has the disposable attitude, and would rather buy bic lighters and shavers than a good Zippo or Gillette. I don’t think my level of chemistry has passed my kitchen countertop, even though I do hold a few patents for same, probably because I look at things as being possible, no matter how rediculous, where real chemists say it can’t be done. Amazing what a little catalyst will do to make the impossible happen!